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Author Topic: Kill Bill II?  (Read 12344 times)

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Offline WCG

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Kill Bill II?
« on: Oct 04, 2014, 08:00 AM »
I know you game developers are plenty busy with your own projects - which are always lots of fun - but if you ever find yourself wondering what to make next, maybe you could set up another Kill Bill sometime?

For you newbies, the original Kill Bill was created by HRD as a vehicle for Folke's tank crew to show me how tough a target a tank can be for AT infantry. They succeeded.  :)  Both times we played it, they killed me and the rest of us rabbits. But I really think it needs to be 3 out of 5 to count, don't you?  :D

One neat thing about it was that it could be played with as few as three people - two in the tank (three is better, but two are enough) and one AT rabbit. We had more than that, because HRD was smart enough to put in extra slots for both teams. (Really, he did a great job setting up the mission.) I don't remember everyone who played, but I do remember Folke, Dan, and Gunny killing me. :) (I shot off lots of missiles, but just couldn't seem to knock them out.)

But it's a very simple mission, and you can use any map you want. Put some tanks at one base and some AT equipment and quadbikes - don't forget the quadbikes in a "Kill Bill" mission!  :D  - at another. HRD put a shaded area in between the two. That was where both sides would expect to find their foe.

Note that the hardest part of the mission is just finding the enemy. The combat area needs to be big enough to allow plenty of maneuvering, but small enough that we can actually find each other. That's not easy, even for the rabbits. Yes, tanks are loud, but that doesn't help as much as you might think. (In our second game, I could hear a tank well enough to follow it, but I couldn't keep up with them and they vanished before I even got a glimpse.)

This makes for a slow, methodical game. I thought it was lots of fun - very suspenseful - and I think the tank guys enjoyed it, too. (Plus, it's good tank training.) But it won't be for everyone, I'm sure. If you like lots of action, this won't be it.

A couple more things, if any of you decide to make a Kill Bill II:

(1) I normally prefer Titan missile launchers, but PCML would probably work better here. (In our first playthrough, I was trying to kill a tank from 50 feet away, which is much too close for a Titan. I actually got two shots off before the tank crew realized that I was standing right next to them.) However, Alamuts might be fun, too, depending on the map. (Titan is good at very long ranges, Alamut for very short, and PCML probably in the middle?) In any case, this is entirely up to you. We'll use whatever equipment you provide.

(2) I don't think we want revive or respawn. When you're dead, you're dead. (It would be nice to continue to watch the others, though, if that's possible.) The mission should end automatically when all of the rabbits are dead. When it comes to the tank side, that's more difficult. I don't think we should have to kill every crewman (I'm not sure we rabbits should even be carrying guns, since we'll be weighted down plenty enough as it is), but just destroy the tanks that are currently in the field. But that's just my own thoughts. What do you think?

(3) This shouldn't be a problem if we're on different sides, but make sure our radios don't use the same frequencies.  :)

(4) Sometimes, people join us late, so make sure both bases are well outside the combat area. We want to give both sides a chance to prepare - and the rabbits, especially, need to be able to get in position before a tank can spot them. (Again, don't forget the quadbikes!  :) )


Am I forgetting anything? Folke, Dan, Ten Ox, Luke Warm,... I know you guys played the original mission, and there were others I've forgotten. Do you guys have anything to add?

Again, this is just a suggestion. I know you're all busy, so don't worry about this unless you've got some time to kill. Or want to see me die,... again.  :D

Bill

Offline GhostFire

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #1 on: Oct 04, 2014, 11:51 AM »
I know many of you are against pvp for the most part. I love coop missions but really I like all multi-player styles of game play from time to time.
I just recently watched a dsylexi video of some infantry vs infantry game play and it looked like a great ol time.
I think what you are mentioning bill sounds fun and would be a nice change up if one night a bunch of guys wanted to mix it up.
The missions would be quick if we had no revives and a spectator cam would make it nice for us to follow the action if we were killed early on.
Teamwork would be crucial as always.

Ghost

Offline Watchmen

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #2 on: Oct 04, 2014, 12:20 PM »
I for one am open to some pvp fun from time to time but it shouldn't be the main focus of our sessions. I just think some variety in the game modes we play will make things more interesting for all of us. We already have some Zeus missions which I think is a nice Alternative to constant unending coop. I'm not saying or even suggesting we add pvp games into our regular schedule I just think that a quick game of pvp from time to time in a unique setting, like here we have quad vs tank, could we have helicopter battles?? Will ultimately be a good chance to try something different and new, who knows it may actually deepen our interest in arma for some of us.
...yes in fact it is so dependable that my bread and butter relies on it.

Offline deathmetaldan

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #3 on: Oct 04, 2014, 01:37 PM »
kill bill was a really fun mission. It doesnt sound like much and really it is more waiting than fighting. Its a very tense and suspenseful game which is what makes it so great.

I would really like to add some friendly pvp to things but its hard to do with only a few people and sometimes feelings get hurt (it will happen no matter what you do).

I think a pvp ambush session would be pretty cool. The ambushees would have a convoy that must take a certain path and the ambushers would have 10 minutes to set up their ambush on the path before the game would start. The convoy would be able to stop and go as they please but must get from point a to point b on the set path.

Another idea is one team defending a harbor or something and the attack team can attack from either land or sea (or both), with this divers could actually be used.

just some ideas.

Offline WCG

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #4 on: Oct 05, 2014, 05:56 AM »
kill bill was a really fun mission. It doesn't sound like much and really it is more waiting than fighting.

Yup. It really isn't the kind of mission which would appeal to everyone. Indeed, it's probably better with just a few people. (For one thing, without revive or respawn, you don't want the mission to continue for a long time after you're dead. That makes death too important. This is fun as long as it stays casual.)

In general, I have zero interest in PvP. I wouldn't be playing Arma at all if it weren't co-op. Kill Bill was a unique situation. That said, it's certainly possible to have other unique situations where we'd be targeting each other. But in general, I'd rather have the AI attacking us. (With tank vs AT, it would be no challenge at all if one side was AI. The AI needs numbers on their side.)

But that's just me. As I say, Kill Bill probably wouldn't appeal to everyone, either. (Well, the impulse might, but not the mission.  :D ) It's very slow, very methodical. And once you're dead, that's it. (Note that there's not much action to watch.) If we try to play it with too many people, some of them aren't going to have much fun, I suspect.

Bill

Offline deathmetaldan

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #5 on: Oct 05, 2014, 11:39 AM »
oddly enough i still have the 2 videos from the original game in my google drive

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9YD_PI82wOWREJCUXVET0pmRGc/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9YD_PI82wOWbVlZZFNDV0tNa3M/view?usp=sharing

me folke and gunny are in the tank looking for a target :). I think in this video we keep repeatedly running over ten ox and then park on top of him so he has to crawl out from under the tank lol... first time i ever heard gunny laugh so much.



duke had made a mission where a squad of players had to run away on foot from players that had air and ground vehicles... that was pretty awesome also but we never had enough players to make it as fun as it could have been.
« Last Edit: Oct 05, 2014, 11:58 AM by deathmetaldan »

Offline WCG

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #6 on: Oct 06, 2014, 05:43 AM »
duke had made a mission where a squad of players had to run away on foot from players that had air and ground vehicles... that was pretty awesome also but we never had enough players to make it as fun as it could have been.

That was a great idea, but I think it was too easy for the 'rabbits' to escape. The whole area was heavily wooded, and it was nearly impossible to spot them (and identify them as enemy). I know when I was the rabbit, we were never even worried.

That kind of thing might work better with more open terrain. If there are plenty of civilians around, you'd still have the problem of identification. Of course, I'm worthless in a chopper, even as gunner. My eyes aren't that good, and neither is my reaction time.  :P

Bill

PS. I'll have to watch your videos again sometime. It was fun seeing things from your perspective, even if you did kill me (how rude!).  :)

Offline Duke

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #7 on: Oct 06, 2014, 06:20 AM »
duke had made a mission where a squad of players had to run away on foot from players that had air and ground vehicles... that was pretty awesome also but we never had enough players to make it as fun as it could have been.

That was a great idea, but I think it was too easy for the 'rabbits' to escape. The whole area was heavily wooded, and it was nearly impossible to spot them (and identify them as enemy). I know when I was the rabbit, we were never even worried.

That kind of thing might work better with more open terrain. If there are plenty of civilians around, you'd still have the problem of identification. Of course, I'm worthless in a chopper, even as gunner. My eyes aren't that good, and neither is my reaction time.  :P

Bill

PS. I'll have to watch your videos again sometime. It was fun seeing things from your perspective, even if you did kill me (how rude!).  :)

hmm... perhaps I could have another go at making that...I learnt some things from doing it, so *hopefully* I might do a better job this time. ;D  But I kind of liked the idea. 

I agree Bill about the terrain and just finding the balance with this type of mission and being pvp at that, isn't easy (I could include ai as well with my hunt script  ;D just kidding) .   If someone wanted to contribute, even just to add ideas, test, etc. I might give it a go.  ;)
"Never give in–never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to your own convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Winston Churchill

Offline GhostFire

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #8 on: Oct 06, 2014, 06:44 AM »
I'd help out Duke I think we should give it a go

Ghost

Offline deathmetaldan

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #9 on: Oct 06, 2014, 06:47 AM »
when we played the getaway mission the first time we only had enough players to have 2 runners and 1 chopper in the air. If you have a few people running and a chopper in the air with some vehicles helping out it would be much more tense since more area could be watched/searched at once.

Offline Duke

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #10 on: Oct 06, 2014, 06:51 AM »
I'd help out Duke I think we should give it a go

Ghost

OK great.  I think perhaps the best place to start is by looking at a few maps and try and find suitable terrain. I will check some out and feel free to do the same Ghost.  Top off my head an area within Altis might be pretty good.  But there could be others.
"Never give in–never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to your own convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.” Winston Churchill

Offline GhostFire

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #11 on: Oct 06, 2014, 07:58 AM »
Agree...Atlis is huge and there are parts that are quite diverse in the terrain layout.
Stratis offers large rolling hills with a tighter map but the airbase to the north N/W does smooth out a bit if I remember correctly.
Spent a ton of time on both maps playing "breaking point" the Day Zish mod for arma 3.

What type of game play are you thinking?

Offline Watchmen

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #12 on: Oct 06, 2014, 09:18 AM »
Sounds like a good idea guys, i think the key to making this mission fun is selecting the right terrian to play it. Survey random areas around Altis in the camera and see what you can find, i might suggest either the north east part near around molos or some kind of big clearing surrounded by a forest.
A virtual arsenal given to the quad guys might also balance things on their end, let them take what they need and fill up their stocks into the bikes. Maybe make the quads bikes such that the wheels cant get destroyed??











Or make the mission at night.............
...yes in fact it is so dependable that my bread and butter relies on it.

Offline deathmetaldan

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #13 on: Oct 06, 2014, 07:11 PM »
watchmen, the point of the mission is for it to not be balanced. If you are running away its best to just do that.... run away. If the runners can steal a vehicle from the searching team i would say they deserve it haha.

Offline Folke

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Re: Kill Bill II?
« Reply #14 on: Oct 06, 2014, 08:46 PM »
Bring it on !
This mission was built just to show that its not so easy to take out a tank crew as it seem.
that tanks still serves as a very good weapon on the modern battlefield.


And this mission gave me right :-)



Tired and Tired again, re-tired!